Der Standard.at - May 14, 2015
German Original: http://derstandard.at/2000015811438/Erich-Lessing-Das-Getoese-der-Welt-dringt-selten-herein

Interview by Michael Völker

The photographer Erich Lessing was present when the state treaty was presented at Belvedere Castle in 1955. In the rubble of Vienna he did not find his homeland, but later on a home.

Standard:
On May 15, 1955 you were standing in front of Belvedere Castle at took that famous photo when Foreign Minister Leopold Figl presented the state treaty. On whose behalf were you there?

Lessing:
On my behalf.

Standard:
You were there on your own initiative?

Lessing:
Always. Usually, when I had an appointment I let a few newspapers know and they took photos. The state treaty was something special, it was clear that I had to be in Vienna and at this event.

Standard:
And you offered the photo afterwards?

Lessing:
Yes, to Magnum, my photo agency, that was the normal circulation. But from an international standpoint it was a minor event.

Standard:
How was the mood in front of the Belvedere?

Lessing:
People were in a very good, actually in a festive mood. The whole way from the Federal Chancellery, the Allied Council and on to the Belvedere was crammed with people. And people were there voluntarily.

Standard:
They were at Heldenplatz voluntarily, too, when Hitler spoke.

Lessing:
Yes, absolutely. But the Heldenplatz was not as crammed as the Belvedere. It was a happy mood, a relaxed mood. People were celebrating.

Standard:
A day before the signing of the state treaty Foreign Minister Figl succeeded in negotiations to eliminate the mention of Austria’s partial war guilt in World War II from the preamble of the treaty. Is this typical for how Austrians deal with their past?

Lessing:
We cannot compare 1955 with today. The past and the present look very much different; those are two different pairs of eyeglasses. Figl himself spent a long time in a concentration camp. The story about the victims and the guilt is a very complicated one. The confession of complicity that the Russians demanded they did want for different reasons, not moral ones. The Russians back then were thinking very pragmatically. They wanted to preserve their influence. In my opinion it all was dependent on the Warsaw Pact and the Soviet security structure. If the Warsaw Pact hadn’t succeeded a day earlier on May 14 we would not have a state treaty. I was in the federal chancellery on May 15, too, and waited with Figl and Raab to see if Molotow would show up or not. He was in Warsaw at the signing of the Pact. There was a big sigh of relief as the limousines finally arrived at Ballhausplatz. Julius Raab just said “here he comes.”

Standard:
You had to flee the Nazis and leave Austria in 1939 and returned in 1947. Did you perceive Austria as your homeland back then?

Lessing:
Homeland is a peculiar term. Austria was a former home, which became a home again. Back then I was trying to get to Paris to attend film school. The leftovers of my family – I knew they were all dead. Auschwitz was not far away in terms of time, and neither was Theresienstadt. Homeland, no. Home? No, that was nobody’s home in 1945. The population was searching for a new home, including myself.

Standard:
So what did you find here?

Lessing:
Rubble. And a traumatized people, a completely traumatized population, completely eroded. After years of war, destruction, pressure and fear, no, there was no friendly sentiment. The friendly mood could only be observed where the leftovers came together again, where the other, the immersed or returned Austria met again. There was this comment by Figl in his Christmas address that has been quoted so much: “Believe in it.” And most people did believe. Today this country is a rich country. And a happy country. The bluster of the world seldom gets through.

Standard:
What made you stay in Austria back then?

Lessing:
For one I did not get a French visa. But I did not give up on my plan to go to France and live there for a while, I did that many years later. But the reason to stay at that time, that was Gottfried Einem, Fritz Wortuba, Ernst Häusserman. I quickly made connections with people that I appreciated, people that thought like I did. They were in hiding or survived somewhere abroad like I did. We met at the Häusermann- table at the Café Grillparzer, later at the Café Savoy. That was a part of cultural Austria; an important part of the new Austria. The First Republic, that was a state that nobody wanted; the Second Republic was a state that everybody wanted.

Standard:
Did you have feelings of resentfulness or revenge towards the Austrians?

Lessing:
Yes, of course. You didn’t walk down Kärntner Strasse with joy. With anger and sadness, with the whole register of emotions, with the doubt if one will be able to live with these people ever again; if this small group at Café Grillparzer can prevail. Austria did not consist of the Café Raimund, Hans Weigel, Café Grillparzer and Häussermann. But that was a nucleus that one liked to join. One hoped that the wounds would begin to heal in a few years. They will never heal completely. Because somewhere you always meet opponents, the opponents from back then. Although one was willing to live together again with those who weren’t the murderers. But they are still among us today, the opponents.

Standard:
Why did it take so long for Austria to accept its guilt and its share of the responsibility?

Lessing:
Well, because it was practical. Joint responsibility, yes, of course. The German s lived for years based on acting dolefulness. But no one bought that dolefulness.

Standard:
Many of your photos became known as contemporary documents, photos from 1955 or photos of the Hungarian uprising a year later. Do you believe or did you believe that one can change something with photos?

Lessing:
All of us in this profession believed that. That you can move something. In Budapest we learned that you can move nothing. World history works differently and cannot be impressed with pictures. It doesn’t matter what happened in Budapest, the world moves differently. I lost my faith in the ability to change things back then. I also stopped photographing politics then, except for special occasions, like Charles de Gaulle’s trip to Algeria.

Standard:
You photographed historic moments, took photos of famous personalities and simple people. You photographed landscapes and worked on film sets. What are your favorite, your most important photos?

Lessing:
I can’t really say. They are all dear to me if they are in focus and exposed correctly. My daughter dug out photos for the current exhibition that I had forgotten about a long time ago. I do not think there is a photo that will keep its meaning eternally. Except maybe for the naked girl running away from a napalm bomb in Vietnam. But will anyone be aware of that in ten years? I have a feeling that today’s youth has vastly different problems and joys. Where is the awareness of history? Maybe it is right this way. One cannot lean on the past all the time. The past is simply over. I am at the end of a generation, who documented the war. I am convinced that today’s youth is no longer interested in that, it doesn’t touch them anymore.

Standard:
We are now confronted with a refugee crisis in the Mediterranean, which is very much communicated via images. Don’t you think that this interests and touches people and today’s youth?

Lessing:
I don’t think so. It passes them by, it doesn’t really leave an impression; otherwise the European governments had reacted differently. One says: Yes, terrible. Full stop. And where should we have dinner tonight?

Standard:
You mentioned the exhibition that your daughter, Hannah Lessing, organized at the Jewish Museum, “Lessing shows Lessing.” How do you like it?

Lessing:
I haven’t seen it yet.

Standard:
But you were at the opening. Didn’t you look around?

Lessing:
No, there were so many people, you couldn’t get through. I was sandwiched between people.

Standard:
Did you at least get a chance to look at the catalogue?

Lessing:
Very nice.

Standard:
What do you think about the selection of photographs?

Lessing:
Very interesting. I probably would have selected most of the landscapes, but maybe would have chosen different ones among the others… But Hannah did a great job.

Standard:
It appears that she was a little worried about what you would have to say about the selection.

Lessing:
She should have known that I am always very proud of her. And finally an exhibition I had nothing to do with.

Standard:
Your daughter Hannah is the head of the National Fund of the Republic of Austria for the Victims of National Socialism: She is tasked with material compensation and reparation payments. What do you say about your daughter’s work?

Lessing:
I think that’s wonderful. I think it’s great that she can still laugh, given all the suffering that is still around. Many people, myself included, cannot forget, but you cannot suffer an entire lifetime. That makes no sense. Maybe one can abate, this is what Hannah does, one can help. But one can definitely not forget.

Erich Lessing (91) comes from a Jewish family in Vienna. In 1939 he managed to flee to Palestine, his family was murdered. Lessing began working as a photographer. In 1947 he returned to Austria and met his wife Traudl. He became an Associated Press photographer; in 1951 he became a member of Magnum Photos. The exhibit “Lessing shows Lessing” is currently on display the bJewish Museum.